Unknown Tank - ID me?

ShaunGamer · 01-02-2007, 10:51 PM

I spent a great Christmas with my Father in Far North Australia.
While touring around, I came across this War Museum that was (unfortunately) closed for the Holidays. I managed to take some photos of the Tank that was parked out the front.

What is really getting to me is I have been unable to identify it.

It looks like a Matilda II chassis, but the turret doesn't match.

Anyone with any ideas?

ShaunGamer · 01-02-2007, 10:52 PM

Another picture - from the side.

cjwalas · 01-02-2007, 11:08 PM

Interesting. It looks like a British Matilda II chassis with possibly an Australian Sentinel turret?
Chris

pbhawkin · 01-02-2007, 11:29 PM

could be Sentinel turret (they had 17pounder or dual 17 pounders) and barrel looks to be very thin. Looks a little like a Grant turret as well but gun far too big.

cjwalas · 01-03-2007, 12:03 AM

Hmmm, on second thought, I don't think it is a Sentinel turret. But it definitely is a Matilda II chassis and body. Curious; a real mystery! I wonder if this is a postwar refitting on the turret?
Chris

charliec · 01-03-2007, 12:09 AM

It's not a Sentinel turret - that turret was quite shallow (see my icon).

In the 17lb gun version (only one built) the gun overhung the hull by at least a meter or more. The 17lb gun had a muzzle brake in the Sentinel probably to reduce the recoil length - the turret was quite small.

It certainly is a Matilda hull - which makes sense because the Matilda's were used by the Australian army until the end of WW2 - they were a perfect vehicle for fire support/assault in jungle warfare.

The turret looks as though it has lost the original mantlet and this has been replaced by a flat sheet. The "gun" is probably a mockup - looks like a piece of water pipe to me.

Regards,

Charlie

Nalla · 01-03-2007, 03:16 AM

The turret looks a lot like it belongs to a Staghound armoured car, though the main gun is way too big, if its real.

David H · 01-03-2007, 03:23 AM

I would agree with Nalla, that's a Staghound turret with dummy gun.

A 17pdr Matilda would have made rather a difference to the early years of the 2nd World War! Thinks... colums of smoking panzer2s and 3s in Belgum...

D

Grizz · 01-03-2007, 04:05 AM

Here is a picture of a Staghound armoured car. The turret seems to be the same.

http://www.diggerhistory.info/images...staghound1.jpg

The barrel looks dodgy though,

Grizz

charliec · 01-03-2007, 05:57 AM

It could also be a turret from an M3A4/5 Grant tank. Both the Grant and Staghound were supplied to Australia during WW2. I'd incline towards a Grant turret since the 280 or so Staghounds were supplied late in the war and seem to have been based mostly in Victoria.

The "gun" certainly is a mock up. The turret (whether Staghound or Grant) was armed with a 37mm gun. I'd guess the turret was simply dropped into the turret ring of the Matilda.

I guess the simplest solution is to ask the museum - I've found an e-mail address and will query them. The museum is in Mareeba about 45 km west of Cairns in North Queensland.

Quote:

A 17pdr Matilda would have made rather a difference to the early years of the 2nd World War! Thinks... colums of smoking panzer2s and 3s in Belgum...

Nice idea but the Matilda turret was too small to be upgunned - the Russians tried to fit the Matilda with their 76mm F-34 gun (a lot smaller than a 17 pounder) to give the Matilda HE capability for infantry support but couldn't fit that gun into the Matilda turret. The Russians got about 1000 Matildas in 1941-42 but didn't like them much.

Regards,

Charlie

Jim Nunn · 01-03-2007, 11:00 AM

My first thought was that it is a Matilda Frog or a Murray however the photos I have are of a Frog and the turret is not the same. I don’t have any photos of a Murray.

Jim Nunn

ShaunGamer · 01-03-2007, 05:02 PM

Well I think you guys have nutted it out!
The Staghound turret looks like the best match and I can confirm that the gun barrel is just water pipe. (guess I should have mentioned that earlier)
Thanks for all your help.

With the number of sheds and hangers at this place, I can see I will be visiting again (when I'm up that way!)

01-02-2007, 11:29 PM	#4 (permalink)
pbhawkin Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Mudgee, NSW, Australia Posts: 76	could be Sentinel turret (they had 17pounder or dual 17 pounders) and barrel looks to be very thin. Looks a little like a Grant turret as well but gun far too big. __________________ Regards Peter Hawkins Mudgee, NSW Australia

01-03-2007, 11:00 AM	#11 (permalink)
Jim Nunn Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Glendora, CA Posts: 405	My first thought was that it is a Matilda Frog or a Murray however the photos I have are of a Frog and the turret is not the same. I don’t have any photos of a Murray. Jim Nunn __________________ Keep the peace(es).

01-03-2007, 05:02 PM	#12 (permalink)
ShaunGamer Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Tropical Australia Posts: 115	Well I think you guys have nutted it out! The Staghound turret looks like the best match and I can confirm that the gun barrel is just water pipe. (guess I should have mentioned that earlier) Thanks for all your help. With the number of sheds and hangers at this place, I can see I will be visiting again (when I'm up that way!) __________________ ShaunGamer http://www.papertigerarmaments.com/

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01-02-2007, 11:08 PM	#3 (permalink)
cjwalas Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Santa Barbara, Ca. Posts: 296	Interesting. It looks like a British Matilda II chassis with possibly an Australian Sentinel turret? Chris

01-03-2007, 12:03 AM	#5 (permalink)
cjwalas Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Santa Barbara, Ca. Posts: 296	Hmmm, on second thought, I don't think it is a Sentinel turret. But it definitely is a Matilda II chassis and body. Curious; a real mystery! I wonder if this is a postwar refitting on the turret? Chris

01-03-2007, 12:09 AM	#6 (permalink)
charliec Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 1,047	It's not a Sentinel turret - that turret was quite shallow (see my icon). In the 17lb gun version (only one built) the gun overhung the hull by at least a meter or more. The 17lb gun had a muzzle brake in the Sentinel probably to reduce the recoil length - the turret was quite small. It certainly is a Matilda hull - which makes sense because the Matilda's were used by the Australian army until the end of WW2 - they were a perfect vehicle for fire support/assault in jungle warfare. The turret looks as though it has lost the original mantlet and this has been replaced by a flat sheet. The "gun" is probably a mockup - looks like a piece of water pipe to me. Regards, Charlie

01-03-2007, 03:16 AM	#7 (permalink)
Nalla Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 13	The turret looks a lot like it belongs to a Staghound armoured car, though the main gun is way too big, if its real.

01-03-2007, 03:23 AM	#8 (permalink)
David H Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: I live in North Yorkshire Posts: 433	I would agree with Nalla, that's a Staghound turret with dummy gun. A 17pdr Matilda would have made rather a difference to the early years of the 2nd World War! Thinks... colums of smoking panzer2s and 3s in Belgum... D

01-03-2007, 04:05 AM	#9 (permalink)
Grizz Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Adelaide, Australia Posts: 42	Here is a picture of a Staghound armoured car. The turret seems to be the same. http://www.diggerhistory.info/images...staghound1.jpg The barrel looks dodgy though, Grizz