Lake Terminal RR. 66’ gondola of 1899

[bigsteel]

the gons look incredibl bernhard! and a great idea to turn an accident into a prototypical repair job --josh

[RonP]

Bernhard I am truly impressed have book marked this and will be trying it myself when I have the confidence.

[acsoosub]

Originally Posted by modelsof1900

Triplex,

I think there is always a difference between wood car and steel cars.
I'm sure that wood cars, flats and (low board) gondolas never were built with such an arched up body. The really good drawing of this car in the book that I use for my job does not show such an arching up and also the text does not contain such a note.

I think that the wood frame, more yet floor and boards swell by rain and humidity and the really heavy trussrods under the frame stay against an enlargement of the wood. (You will see in next steps what the reasons are for it.) The only way for the swelling wood is an upward movement. And also the four truss rods on top of the side boards can not avoid this deformation.

This is my theory and I'm sure that's right - but I would like to read also all your aguments.

Bernhard

I'm sure that's not right - as Triplex says, the car is arched to take the load. The truss rods have turnbuckles on them, and can be tightened to put an arch into the wood body of the car and prevent the car from sagging. Most photos I've seen of wood cars in good condition show a slight arch to the body. A car with any sort of slight sag is past its serviceable condition.

Of course for drawings it's much easier to draw it all square. The amount of arching depends on how much the truss rods are tightened.

[steamhead]

Oohh boy....!!! Truly amazing work...!!! Crafsmanship in wood I understand...and might aspire to do some day.... In metal..?? Beyond the capabilities of most mortals....Those bolsters are fantastic....and then they're mounted with straps that have nuts and bolts on them...!!! Too much...!!!

Congratulations on the BEST work I've EVER seen..!!

[Russ Bellinis]

It has been a few months since I visited this thread. Those gons are gorgeous!

[modelsof1900]

Originally Posted by acsoosub

I'm sure that's not right - as Triplex says, the car is arched to take the load. The truss rods have turnbuckles on them, and can be tightened to put an arch into the wood body of the car and prevent the car from sagging. Most photos I've seen of wood cars in good condition show a slight arch to the body. A car with any sort of slight sag is past its serviceable condition.

Of course for drawings it's much easier to draw it all square. The amount of arching depends on how much the truss rods are tightened.

Chris,

thank you very much for your reply.

Sorry, but I cannot agree with your argument. In my opinion these specific cars must be arched up while years of use in railroad service in addition to the aspect of rain and humidity.
Wood is an usable material that everyone knows as well as usable in connection with compression. However, wood is often lesser usable when you will use it with traction force like the frame of a railroad car and there especially the center sills. Couplers must be fastened by bolts and not one of these connections is so fastened that those are fixed while the whole life time cycle of a wood car. And what is with the wood?
Further I have written already that it will be performed when it will be wet and moistly. What does it mean when these wood cars will be stretched coupled in a long and heavy train? And the trains were long and heavy in times around 1920 where I have seen these cars in service yet. I think that than the truss rods will take over the traction force when the wood and especially the center sills again do not convey this traction force from the one to the other end of the car.
The truss rods will be tautened and straightened and they will push up the queenposts against the frame sills and therefore the body will arched up – additionally to what climatic influences like rain and humidity will do.
This is my opinion and I hope that you can understand my arguments that these open cars must be warp while their service and they did not have this as prevention against sagging.
All pictures that I have seen do show these cars after a long life time in service after 15 or 20 years and in fact they were arched up – all.

Samples of these cars can you find on the homepage of the Black River Historical Society. And I am very interested in more information if you will find other pictures or descriptions of these gondola cars.

Bernhard

[modelsof1900]

Last week I prepared the first model in preparation adding the truss rods.



Altogether each model will get 12 truss rods mounted below of car. Four truss rods are installed already while a longer time ago; they are guided over center of side walls. Look the last pictures for this.



You see here at the outer queenpost row that all truss rods will be installed as pairs. Four more truss rods are guided over two inner queenposts.
These posts in two different shapes are cast after master models which a precision model maker has built after my description. These parts have an excellent quality however they were also expensively. However I could not build these models without these very specific queenposts.



Here the basic for a few more small parts …



The ready parts and their use as posts for the truss rod guiding between floor planks and body bolster. Twelve such small parts are needed per model only?! (These four truss rods like you can see in this picture are temporarily mounted for demonstrating the final installation.)

However before I can add the truss rods I will finish all other four models to this state and than I must build the brakes and mount them because the brakes would not be mountable when the truss rods are installed before. And I think that I will need a longer time doing this all.

Bernhard

[steamhead]

Take your time.....We'll all be here waiting to see the progress of a most amazing piece of work....

[nkp174]

Bernard, those are very nice castings.

[belg]

Bernhard, this is the first time I'm seeing your work and it looks great, I like how you break things down logically and proceed only when sure. I was wondering if when finished will these units need to be weighted to meet NMRA standards, if so will you do this with a load simulation or some other clever way?
Someone mentioned your barrel car but after visiting your albums I did not see it listed, do you have a link to that build?
I have sent you a pm back in return of your Email this time as my original reply must have gotten lost in cyber space, thanks again for the pics, Pat

[modelsof1900]

Pat,

thanks for your compliments of my modeling jobs and descriptions.
The "barrel car" is an old time box car; look here in forum for B&O box car of 1867.
And all ok with sent pics.

Bernhard

[modelsof1900]

Yet a note to model weight.

Pat, you are right, I did not add a weight to body or frame because I will like to get models very close to the original cars.
The only way could be a lead weight in full length and whole wide mounted under the floor boards. This would need a reduced high of intermediate sills. However I did not do this because I planned a very fine under body detailing so that this would be a disaccord in my eyes. Because the original cars were built for transport of rails – in specific these were street car girder rails – so also the future rail load of models must give the needed weights after NMRA standards.
I think that this is the best way without each compromise. Ok, the cars can not run without these loads however I do not see this as a handicap.

Last weekend I was guest on the yearly US group meeting of FREMO (FRiends of European MOdel railroads) in Unna/Germany and I have had a good occasion to run my models on a modular layout for a first time.
Click on movie picture and let run a short train.



I think that you can see with a second run that the first, fourth and fifth cars are the aged models with the arched up body while cars no. 2 and 3 are the new models with a straightened body.

Those were three really nice days together with friends of same interest.

Bernhard

[bigsteel]

amazing work bernhard i can just say wow! its just amazing what you can do with your hands.--josh

[Russ Bellinis]

Wow, Bernhard. You don't really get a prespective on how long those cars are until you see them in a train with a locomotive and caboose to see their length relative to other equipment. I didn't realize freight cars were so long in the late 1800's to early 1900's. Those models are awesome!

[ScratchyAngel]

It's nice to see them running. They're impressive already. I thought the exact same thing as Russ about the length. Somehow laying by themselves they didn't seem like they'd be as long as the loco and tender. They're going to be something to see loaded up.

Jason