FiddlersGreen new Lifetime Magic Key policy

[jdmcomp]

If you have not noticed FG has changed software and established yet another new policy with regards to those of us who purchased Lifetime Magic Keys (Lifetimers) many years ago in an effort to support new FG startup efforts. (My purchases from FG go back to FG's emergence on the WWW. I purchased and still have both the Aircraft and Building CDs, the latter personally bought from Chip's own hand.) It can be accessed at the link below.

http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/cdrom/DVD-support.php

I have contacted Chip on many occasions (by email and in person) due to the fact that many new models contain errors and yet, FG rarely would send the corrected versions to Lifetimers. Additionally, Chip did not consider new versions as new models and did not allow Lifetimes access to those models. Some models were even put entirely off limits from the start and never given to Lifetimers. For the last year or so he did give more access to the files, but never complete access. Chips response, as seen above, is that Chip writes the rules, live with it (see link above).

All of us have a love/hate relationship with FG. Many disappointments in announcements of new models (B25, Lancastser, etc.) that never materialized, models of less then workable shapes, and several reinterpretations of the Lifetime MK rules (as shown above) and yet once and a while a model of real beauty slips through and we get something of value. I keep hoping for better but................ Thanks for allowing me to vent my frustrations. Your comments?

[jagolden]

I'm not sure I completely understand. It does not seem to state that there will be no new models for Lifetimers.
I am not a lifetimer, I purchase or renew my Magic Keys as I desire.
My personal feelings are that FG is a small company that for so many years has offered the best bang for buck (or euro) as a full time company dedicated to paper modelers of varying levels. Their prices are low, purchasing easy and they roll out a good number of models per year.
Chip and all have certainly teated me incredibly well (model previews and MK extensions) and I cannot complain. I support the recent changes in CD structure and MK costs as simply smart, needed business decisions.
There are some models that I have waited for and not seen (the B25 being one), but there have been other exciting or unusual ones to fill the spaces.
Now, in recent years some good models have appeared from other designers at very good prices-that's good and fine, but these designers are not running a full-time, only-income businesses so pricing can be whatever they want. That's just not the case with FG.
Again, I'll say Im not a Lifetimer so I'm not sure what that means. All new models free forever? Can someone explain please.

[Wily]

Chip does write the rules. He does because it's his responsibility as the business owner.

Business is a lot like parenting - we each have our own styles. Some are obviously good/bad. Some, we don't know the results for a long, long time and even then, they can be circumstantial.


I'd take him on face-value that he's doing what he can to keep cash flowing and his vision for the hobby alive...

Though we may not "like" this or that, Fiddlersgreen has played a tremendous role world-wide in furthering the hobby and giving a place for designers to sell their work.

Vote with your pocketbook, but right now, according to his "letter," he needs encouragement and support.

[gwssms]

Personally I can't understand what you have to complain about. Chip's prices are low - and used to be ridiculously low. There is hands down no other place on the net where you get so much for so little. Frankly, you sound spoiled and greedy to me. If you want the versions that people have worked to create, pay for them.

[jdmcomp]

"If you want the versions that people have worked to create, pay for them."

I have already paid for them. Now Chip negates the contract. Chip had gone back on his word and I find that very low indeed.

The only reason this may not be repeated is his age. Chip, act your age and be a man. Honesty and integrity are important.

[jagolden]

Originally Posted by jdmcomp

"If you want the versions that people have worked to create, pay for them."

I have already paid for them. Now Chip negates the contract. Chip had gone back on his word and I find that very low indeed.

The only reason this may not be repeated is his age. Chip, act your age and be a man. Honesty and integrity are important.

JD,

I'd suggest trying to contact chip again and voice your concerns and feelings in a direct, but friendly way.
I have contacted chip and the gang many times and have always received answers to questions or replys to comments.
It is unfortunate and odd if you did not receive replays to emails you've sent.
Again, I ask someone for a clear explanation of Lifetime Keys and the problem that has come up.
Hope things improve between you and FG.

[sakrison]

Originally Posted by jdmcomp

Honesty and integrity are important.

So is putting food on the table. Chip's original business plan--and his Lifetime Memberships--may have been too optimistic. I've talked with Chip on a number of occasions and, while he's not particularly happy about having to change the rules, he prefers that to simply closing up shop.

His contribution to this hobby has been immeasurable. If paying a bit more than you expected for his models is the price of seeing him stay in business, vote with your wallet, but for my money, he has earned our support many times over.

--David

[gman95687]

I have been purchasing models from Fiddler's Green for a few years and I have never heard of "Lifetime magic keys". When I bought my first Cd I received a years worth of magic keys and even after that expired I still had access to the files from the Cds that I had purchased including all of the versions that were available. I would even logon and sometimes find new models added to my models section, so it was always fun to logon and check my directory. I never anticipated nor was I told anything about any lifetime offer so this is news to me. Fiddlers Green is a wonderful resource. I still purchase models to this day and the first new purchase I did renewed my magic keys for 3 months, enabling me to get the new P-80 model! I have nothing but praise for Fiddlers Green. Its a great contribution and resource for all modelers. Sure some models may not be perfect, but if you are an experienced card modeler or even otherwise, you can easily correct the problem if you find one. Making and releasing these models is hard work-I know this because I have tried producing my own, so I have nothing but respect for the Fiddlers Green crew....

After reading the policy that was posted by Fiddlers Green, it doesnt change my mind a bit. Hosting, bandwidth, design,etc, they all cost money and prices aint going down. I totally understand where they are coming from. I downloaded all of the models in my folder and burned them all to cd as instructed so now I have them. I understand how some people would be upset by this change, but as the saying goes, "all good things come to an end". Change is inevitable. We all have to deal. But taking the issue and questioning someone's integrity and bringing their age into it?...that seems a little harsh to me....

[Darwin]

As for myself, I made up my mind quite a while ago that when my magic keys expired, that would be it. Looking at my "my models" folder, I'm getting the feeling that my keys expired a few years short of what I paid for. I can almost guess the relative age of the responders from their attitude regarding the worth (and importance) of a man's word. Seems it has no worth whatever any more.....say whatever you need to in order to get someone's money, then to hell with them if the bargain made is no longer convenient to you. It's not the way I was raised, not the way I've lived my life, and not the way I'm going to live out what days remain to me. I guess that attitude makes me an out-of-it old dinosaur....so be it. However, for those reading this post with no understanding of where I'm coming from, I feel truly sorry for you, since you are going to have to live in the world you've created a lot longer than I will.

[jagolden]

>>>I'm getting the feeling that my keys expired a few years short of what I paid for.<<<

Have you asked Chip about this? Do you have a record of when you bought and for how long?


>>> I can almost guess the relative age of the responders from their attitude regarding the worth (and importance) of a man's word.<<<

Someone already pointed out it's rude (and probably libelous-in public) to question someone's integrity and bring age into it. I know plenty of young people with integrity I'd wish to have. I wouldn't dare say that to any young person risking their lives daily (police, fire, military). I support FG's decision and I'm certainly not young.


>>>Seems it has no worth whatever any more.....say whatever you need to in order to get someone's money, then to hell with them if the bargain made is no longer convenient to you.<<<

Have you ever read your credit card agreement?
Anyway, running you own business is tough. Sometime unpleasant choices have to be made and customers can be lost. The overall strength of the company is and should be priority. I've never understood how FG made any profit considering the low pricing for models and giving every customer who buys a CD Magic Keys. That's giving away potentially $48.00 US (+-) to each of those customers.


>>>It's not the way I was raised, not the way I've lived my life, and not the way I'm going to live out what days remain to me. I guess that attitude makes me an out-of-it old dinosaur....so be it.<<<

Not a dinosaur, but someone who does stick to their principles and that's to be lauded.

[chip fyn]

Guys,,
There's a crippling high level of frustration in America (and probably
the world) these days and it really saddens me. Have you noticed it
too?

Most always the folks who go about ranting and raving are the ones who
haven't quite understood the situation and need to vent frustration.
Lifetimer, JDMcomp has always received all his models and all the new
variations and all the corrections/updates and they've always been
stashed away in his free MyModels folder at our considerable expense.
With his defiance of buying our really fantastic DVD that goes toward
our desperatly needed support, his free MyModels folder seems to be a
tad glitchy lately.

Over these past 7 years jdmcomp has enjoyed a couple thousand dollars
of models for his $50 (or was it $100) but the camper's still not
happy.

I've worked hard and long for the past 28 years to put together a
company that creates really neat and educational cardmodels, at fair
prices, and then deliver them always with the customer in mind- post
paid? free folder? free support? But I guess ya just can't please
everyone eh?

If you're one of our 17,473 valued customers and have a problem with
anything to do with our Fiddlersgreen, please email me and I'll try my
best to sort it out.

chip
Fiddlersgreen

Note:The only email address that works for FG at this time is:
chipfyn@gmail.com
not:
chip@fiddlersgreeen.net
info@fiddlersgreen.net
Around November 15, these two email boxes crashed in GoDaddy's server
and we just couldn't pay the $150/half hour-credit card open- for them
to go in and fix it. New hosting with the re-launch in April.

[gman95687]

Well I think what this thread is coming down to is an obvious clash of generations. There are some who have posted here who are of the generation prior to mine where a man's word was all that he had. It was a handshake and its all good. I have nothing but respect for that generation. But REALITY has to set in at some point that that time is gone. I am not implying that my generation doesnt value a the mans word as the prior generation did, nor am I implying that anyone would. What I am saying is that times have changed. People have to run their business as best they can and TRY to meet everyone's expectations, younger or older. Rising costs and the sagging economy probably havent helped the situation and I am not using it an excuse-its called REALITY. No one wants to face it, but thats the way it is, take it or leave it. Fiddlers Green was forced to make a tough decision and as Chip stated, he cant make everyone happy. Sticking to your principles is fine, but forcing them on someone else to meet your expectations, whats that called?

[jdmcomp]

gman, you said:

"Sticking to your principles is fine, but forcing them on someone else to meet your expectations, whats that called?"

Who is forcing who? Chip is the one forcing me out. I am simply asking that Chip live up to his contract with me. And what Chip is doing is called fraud and theft. (Annie, do you really believe that this is right?)

Principles, no. It was a purchase and a contract and I did not set the price, Chip did. And it was more then $100 Chip; you required that Lifetimers purchase your CD before being eligible to purchase lifetime MKs.

We tried to help Chip out a long time ago when he was in the same situation and for this help we get .......? Chip would not be here today if not for the lifetimers contribution 10 years ago. Some thanks. And FYI, I did contact Chip when I first noticed the cutoff and his response is very much the same as the several versions posted on the website.

BTW, Do you ever wonder why so many very good designers no longer do models for FG? Talk to some of them.

If you read Chips statement it is not the costs (after all we are but 300 of 17,000+) but the fact he is pissed we would not pay again for something we already paid for once.

And gman, you do not really believe that a merchant can simply cancel a paid contract at will. Yes, it may be a generational thing, with the new generation apparently believing that life is purely situational. If you really do believe this then you in for a big surprise.

Chip's representation that he has always been up front and provided everything ("JDMcomp has always received all his models and all the new
variations and all the corrections/updates and they've always been
stashed away in his free MyModels folder at our considerable expense") is simply a lie. I have the emails he sent denying access to corrected versions. And since the contract was for a lifetime, (Chip's not mine) he is in violation of the terms he himself set.

[cygielski]

I'm inclined to think that if Fiddlersgreen is a commercial company (no matter how small), it should be bound by the contracts it has signed. The fact that its management has made decisions in the past that have not panned out is no excuse for it not living up to its obligations.

[cts125]

As an occasional customer of FG, who's had mostly positive experiences, I'm still trying to make up my own mind as to who's right and who's wrong here...

But I do have one question.....

Chip commented in his reply to this thread:

"With his defiance of buying our really fantastic DVD that goes toward
our desperatly needed support, his free MyModels folder seems to be a
tad glitchy lately."

Does this mean that because he didn't purchase your DVD you purposely made access to his folder problematic??? If that is the case (and note I said IF) then I'm afraid that strikes me as dishonest and unethical.

I sincerely hope that is not the case and Chip would not resort to a 'blackmail' strategy to gain support.

Charles T.