4-8-4 kitbash research

[RonP]

Hey guys i have a Bachman UP 4-8-4 #806 Ho locomtive. I want to bash this baby into a Canadian National version.

Anyone interested in helping please chime in. I am not starting this for at least a month but any info is greatly apreciated.

BTW I have never done this before, but I know I can get some help with it from the club

[MilesWestern]

Please Define "CN version."

The trick to kitbashing is to choose a model that's fairly similar to the one you wish to build.

Was there a CN locomotive out there that was a large drivered 4-8-4 with bokbox drivers with a similar clyinder diameter, steam dome position, and cab type to the one you have there? Was (THE CN loco) coal or oil burning?

[RonP]

I don't really know. loks to me that the one i have is oil burner. I am more of a structure modeler and have never done this before.

[nachoman]

Here is a start:

Canadian National Confederations

At the very least, it looks like you will need an all-weather cab.

Kevin

[nachoman]

My thoughts are you could get a reasonable approximation with an all-weather cab, a feedwater heater on the smokebox, a few details and paint. That may satisfy all but the nitpickers.

If it is an older bachmann with the pancake motor...it may not be worth the trouble. On those, the wheels would slip on the axle gears and get out of quarter and the engine would run like crud. There wasn't an easy way to fix this problem.

Kevin

[RonP]

Originally Posted by nachoman

My thoughts are you could get a reasonable approximation with an all-weather cab, a feedwater heater on the smokebox, a few details and paint. That may satisfy all but the nitpickers.

If it is an older bachmann with the pancake motor...it may not be worth the trouble. On those, the wheels would slip on the axle gears and get out of quarter and the engine would run like crud. There wasn't an easy way to fix this problem.

Kevin

It has one of those wormy can motors. I hope when my questions are too stupid someone will stop me.

Feedwater heater and weather cab sound like good scratch work about paint do i have to remove the wire on the side ? and how

[60103]

Ron: see if anyone at the club has a diagram of a CNR Northern.Should be one in Canadian Railway Modeller or the Oshome magazine.
CN's Northerns were among the smaller 4-8-4s. The UP might be a little large.

[doctorwayne]

Precision Scale has the old Kemtron all-weather cab available in either brass or plastic - it's a pretty close match for some CNR locos. I'm using it to convert this Akane 2-10-2 into a T-3-a for my good friend cn nutbar:






When it's finished, I'll be posting progress pictures in a separate thread, but for now, it's very slow going.

Wayne

[nkp174]

RonP, how close is close enough for you?

Frankly, no model is perfect...as I've never seen a coal fired HO 4-8-4 with scale controls in the cab So if it will be good enough for you...then it will be fine! Will you be lettering it for CNR...because if not, then whom can tell you the Ron and Pacific didn't have that exact locomotive?

If I was in your shoes, I'd ask myself if I'd be happy with this model later. If the answer is yes, than it is good enough. If the answer is probably not, then I wouldn't consider it close enough.

A tip to help its pulling power is to remove the rear and lead trucks. If its pulling power increases substantially, the springs are too rigid/long. I tripled the pulling power of an old Bachmann Plus 4-8-4 by trimming the overly stiff springs.

[MasonJar]

Ron,

Look up some of doctorwayne's other work about detailing locos and giving things a "family look". While it is unlikely that you will ever turn that UP 4-8-4 into an exact scale model of any of CNR's fleet, you can come close by paying attention to the details as suggested by the above.

I'll second (or third, or whatever ) the suggestion that the two biggest details that suggest CNR (or even Canadian roads in general) are the all-weather "vestible" cab, and the feedwater heater on top of the smokebox.

Try to find some drawings of what you want to turn it into, and pick off the easiest and most obvious details to start. OSHOME, CN SIG, Canadian Railway Modeller and others are good sources. Even the pictures available through the Museum of Science & Technology are a good starting point. See also any of Ian Wilson's books.

Good luck with the project!

Andrew

[eightyeightfan1]

Can't tell from the pic, but whta kind of tender is that?
If its a standard tender, and looking at the protoype pics, looks like you're gonna need a "Vanderbuilt" tender also.

[Squidbait]

OK, just to represent the rivet counters here - no. It's not going to come close. The UP FEF Northerns were much larger than anything CN had. They were longer, had larger drivers and weighed more.

That said, as has been pointed out, you could make this look much more CNR-ish by adding an all-weather cab, and some details like a feedwater heater. The Vanderbilt tender that comes with it is very close to the type used by CNR.

Ultimately, it depends on how picky you are. Or how rich. CNR U-2 series Northerns have been done in brass.

[RonP]

Originally Posted by Squidbait

OK, just to represent the rivet counters here - no. It's not going to come close. The UP FEF Northerns were much larger than anything CN had. They were longer, had larger drivers and weighed more.

That said, as has been pointed out, you could make this look much more CNR-ish by adding an all-weather cab, and some details like a feedwater heater. The Vanderbilt tender that comes with it is very close to the type used by CNR.

Ultimately, it depends on how picky you are. Or how rich. CNR U-2 series Northerns have been done in brass.

Thanks I have to find proto pics of the heater. Did CN use this as an oil burner or was it too cold for that. An all weather cad should be easy to find an after market produced piece.

I'll find a vanderbilt tender to go with this instead of using the one i have. we just throw in the back of the yard till it is needed.

[Squidbait]

Ron,

The tender in the picture is a Vanderbilt tender (square bunker up front, cylindrical water tank). Miniatures by Eric has several all-weather cabs available, as well as feedwater heaters.
I'm not sure how many of the Northers were coal burners vs. oil. I suspect the earlier classes were coal, the later were oil, but that's just a guess.

If you check out the CNLines SIG CNclopedia loco diagrams, they have loco diagrams for most classes of steam locos, including the U-series northerns.

[RonP]

Originally Posted by Squidbait

Ron,

The tender in the picture is a Vanderbilt tender (square bunker up front, cylindrical water tank). Miniatures by Eric has several all-weather cabs available, as well as feedwater heaters.
I'm not sure how many of the Northers were coal burners vs. oil. I suspect the earlier classes were coal, the later were oil, but that's just a guess.

If you check out the CNLines SIG CNclopedia loco diagrams, they have loco diagrams for most classes of steam locos, including the U-series northerns.

Thank you very much.