American Schools 57 vs 07 History...

[CJTK1701]

... in effect...

SCHOOL -- 1957 vs. 2007

Scenario : Jack goes quail hunting before school, pulls into school parking lot with shotgun in gun rack.
1957 - Vice Principal comes over, looks at Jack's shotgun, goes to his car and gets his shotgun to show Jack.
2007 - School goes into lock down, FBI called, Jack hauled off to jail and never sees his truck or gun again. Counsellors called in for traumatized students and teachers.

Scenario: Johnny and Mark get into a fistfight after school.
1957 - Crowd gathers. Mark wins. Johnny and Mark shake hands and end up buddies.
2007 - Police called, SWAT team arrives, arrests Johnny and Mark. Charge them with assault, both expelled even though Johnny started it.

Scenario: Jeffrey won't be still in class, disrupts other students.
1957 - Jeffrey sent to office and given a good paddling by the Principal. Returns to class, sits still and does not disrupt class again.
2007 - Jeffrey given huge doses of Ritalin. Becomes a zombie. Tested for ADD. School gets extra money from state because Jeffrey has a disability.

Scenario: Billy breaks a window in his neighbour's car and his Dad gives him a whipping with his belt.
1957 - Billy is more careful next time, grows up normal, goes to college, and becomes a successful businessman.
2007 - Billy's dad is arrested for child abuse. Billy removed to foster care and joins a gang. State psychologist tells Billy's sister that she remembers being abused herself and their dad goes to prison. Billy's mom has affair with psychologist.

Scenario: Mark gets a headache and takes some aspirin to school .
1957 - Mark shares aspirin with Principal out on the smoking dock.
2007 - Police called, Mark expelled from school for drug violations. Car searched for drugs and weapons.

Scenario : Pedro fails high school English.
1957 - Pedro goes to summer school, passes English, goes to college.
2007 - Pedro's cause is taken up by state. Newspaper articles appear nationally explaining that teaching English as a requirement for graduation is racist. ACLU files class action lawsuit against state school system and Pedro's English teacher. English banned from core curriculum. Pedro given diploma anyway but ends up mowing lawns for a living because he cannot speak English.

Scenario: Johnny takes apart leftover firecrackers from 4th of July, puts them in a model airplane paint bottle, blows up a red ant bed.
1957 - Ants die.
2007 - BATF, Homeland Security, FBI called. Johnny charged with domestic terrorism, FBI investigates parents, siblings removed from home, computers confiscated, Johnny's Dad goes on a terror watch list and is never allowed to fly again.

Scenario: Johnny falls while running during recess and scrapes his knee. He is found crying by his teacher, Mary. Mary hugs him to comfort him.
1957 - In a short time, Johnny feels better and goes on playing.
2007 - Mary is accused of being a sexual predator and loses her job. She faces 3 years in State Prison. Johnny undergoes 5 years of therapy.

Big change huh?

[Mechanic]

Yeah. . .

I know this meant to be funny, but taking hyperbolic under-reactions of yesteryear and comparing them to hyperbolic over-reactions of today, not to mention racial overtones. . .

not hitting my funny bone.

1967 - Johnny (a bully) and Dave had a fistfight in the schoolyard.
2007 - Dave still has sinus issues from a broken nose, and health insurance doesn't cover it.

1988 - Sulejman is born in Bosnia and and grows up a witness to horrors of war.
2007 - Takes a shotgun to Trolley Square, kills five and injures four before being killed by police. No one knows why he did it.


I like to read funny stuff, that's why I click on stuff in the lounge, but do you think this is funny?

[CJTK1701]

Actually, it was meant as observational editorial. Each person sees his own thing, colored by his own mental state and background. I see where the rights of the Family have been sublimated by the Govt. as a result of touchy, feely, leftists, that are more concerned with an idealogical, social, utopia, than with addressing real issues.
I also see where things that are relatively innocent can be taken out of context and twisted into something that was not.
I see where America has changed and not neccesarily for the better in many cases. This reminds me of a passage from the Holy Bible speaking of how "this" generation is ever learning but never coming close to the truth, where people call wisdom foolishness and foolishness wisdom.
I also see where societies mores have become twisted and no longer resemble the the era I grew up in. I'm amazed at what things have become passe' and what things are challenged these days.

I didn't see this as being sexist, or racist, nor did I see it as promoting slaughter.

I did not post this to offend. The unfortunate fact is much of waht was in this editorial has become fact.

I've lived on the West coast, lived in the South and lived in major cities and I now live in a rural area in the Midwest, I would much rather live where I live now than any of the other places I've lived in the past. In many ways this area is much more like the 57 America than the 07 America. People here still tote guns, go hunting, go fishing, teach their kids morals, block offensive material from the television and the internet. It's much nicer than dodging bullets in South Central L.A.

[Mechanic]

OK, I can believe you weren't posting this in a humorous vein. I certainly didn't find it humorous. That you consider this an "editorial comment" and you consider "much of waht was in this editorial has become fact." actually makes it even more offensive to me. The "good 'ol days" were never the good 'ol days; Happy Days was a TV show, not reality.

Every "example" is hyperbole, with the exception of the aspirin and "zero tolerance" has always been a poor excuse for common sense.

Do you really not see the ridiculous exageration in every example?

Leftists? Thanks to the Right wing administration, when Homeland Security spirits little Johnny away because he was overheard through domestic spy programs talking about building bombs (dad's already on the no-fly list because he has the "wrong" name"); or when your fourth amendment rights are violated when the cops search your vehicle because your son/daughter had an aspirin at school; it's the ACLU that's going to come to bat for you.

Pedro? nothing racist in THAT senario. . .

"I see where America has changed and not neccesarily for the better in many cases."
I also. I don't want to live somewhere where you have to wear a flag lapel pin, carry a bible and say the right prayer to be identified as a "good" person and feel safe.

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
-George Washington

Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security.
-Benjamin Franklin

It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
-Voltaire

[CJTK1701]

Wow! You really seem to have taken offense to something that I saw as relatively innocuous. Sorry to have offended your sensibilities, that was not the reason for the post.

I'm afraid that I just don't see the world as you see it and really had no idea this would be so offensive to anyone.

We seem to have two very different views of this matter. I'm still proud to be an American and I'm very proud of my service to this country. Like Ronald Reagan, I see this country as the shining beacon on the hill. During WWII we helped to liberate Eruope and afterwards handed everything back to the respective countrys and in many instances helped to rebuild entire countrys and their economies. Besides the shear number of casualties we suffered, we gave back far more than we ever took. In Korea and Vietnam we again shed our national treasures blood to hold back opressive communist dictators and despots, which history has shown, crumbled under their own gread and mismanagement. We still go into other countrys and stand up for the oppressed and down trodden and yet are villified in the press.

With all of that we've become not only the most powerful nation in the world, but one of the richest and most advanced technologically.

Still, in the scheme of things, I think we've lost our way morally and don't have the virtue as a society that we once had.

No, I really don't see this as racist. What about the Pedro sentance upsets you? I think it's grand that someone from another country can come here legally, learn the language, go to college and become a success.

I think it's amazing that both Graig Fergesun9sp?0 and Tracy Ullman have become citizens, within the last six months. They submitted their requests, worked legally in the country and became citizens. This option is available to anyone that follows the rules.

As a result of my service to this country, I know that there are people from all over the world trying to get here and become citizens and they submit their paperwork and work on visas and learn the language and wait to become citizens. There are a lot of people waiting in line to get here.

I guess it's all in how you look at things. As I said, for my part, I looked at this as observational and indicitive of actual events over the last 30-40 years. I just watched a film short on TCM about juvenile deliquency in the 50's. It was quite different from what we see on the news every day.

I'm afraid I don't see any of this as hyperbole. It seems more to me as a trend analysis. When you take away personal accountablity and responsibility and replace it with legaleese and a mentality of "I'm gonna get mine, or I'm gonna get paid...?!?" Well, I think we see that evidenced in society today.

It just seems to me that this country has become a little off center from what it was like when I grew up. Today, the Judiciary and the press etc seem to be more concerned with the irghts of the pedophile than they are the child that was abused and I think that is a perfect commentary on how things have shifted. When children can freely access material that used to be kept behind the counter and had to be purchased by an adult with an I.D. and you see 25-40+ teachers abusing their position and those in their care on a regular basis.... Gang bangers in the streets, the Meth epidemic, there are just so many examples of how things have changed for the worse that it would take forever to list them.

You seem to think that I'm expecting to go back to the 50's, or that I live in the 50's. That's not it at all, but I am glad to be living in an area where I don't have to view or be around some of the things that I've seen in larger cities and in other countrys.

I'm afraid you've misinterpreted my original post and have taken offense at something that was merely a look back, historically, to me at least.

Again, I apologise that you were offended, but it's really not in my power to control how you think, or feel. Had I known this would have been taken this way I would not have posted it.

In closing, I can quote quotable quotes all day, from some of the very same people you have quoted, instead I'll just say this.....something that every American service member is aware of. "Freedom is not free."

[CJTK1701]

I just ran across this and I think it further explains what I'm feeling and perhaps explains the way some things got the way they are.

Dear God:
Why didn't you save the school children at ?
Northern Illinois University
Virginia Tech
Amish Country, PA
Columbine High School
Moses Lake, Washington 2/2/96
Bethel , Alaska 2/19/97!
Pearl , Mississippi 10/1/97
West Paducah , Kentucky 12/1/97
Stam P, Arkansas 12/15/97
Jonesboro , Arkansas 3/24/98
Edinboro , Pennsylvania 4/24/98
Fayetteville , Tennessee 5/19/98
Springfield , Oregon 5/21/98
Richmond , Virginia 6/15/98
Littleton , Colorado 4/20/99
Taber , Alberta, Canada 5/28/99
Conyers , Georgia
5/20/99
Deming , New Mexico 11/19/99
Fort Gibson , Oklahoma 12/6/99
Santee , California 3/ 5/01 and
El Cajon , California 3/22/01?

Sincerely,
Concerned Student
-----------------------------------------------------
Reply:
Dear Concerned Student:
I am not allowed in schools.
Sincerely,
God

----------------------------------------------------------
How did this get started?...
----------------
Let's see,
I think it started when Madeline Murray O'Hare complained
She didn't want any prayer in our schools.
And we said, OK...
------------------
Then,
Someone said you better not read the Bible in school,
The Bible that says
'Thou shalt! Not kill,
Thou shalt not steal,
And love your neighbors as yourself,'
And we said, OK...
-----------------
Dr. Benjamin Spock said
We shouldn't spank our children
when they misbehaved
because their little personalities
would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem.
And we said,
An expert should know what he's talking about.
So we won't spank them anymore...
------------------
Then someone said
Teachers and principals better not
Discipline our children when they misbehave.
And the school administrators said
No faculty member in this school
Better touch a student when they misbehave
Because we don't want any bad publicity,
And we surely don't want to be sued.
And we accepted their
Reasoning...
------------------
And the entertainment industry said,
let's make TV shows and movies that promote
Profanity, violence and illicit sex...
And let's record music that encourages
Rape, drugs, murder, suicide, and satanic themes..
And we said,
it's just entertainment
And it has no adverse effect
And nobody takes it seriously anyway,
So go right ahead.
------------------
Now we're asking ourselves
Why our children have no conscience,
Why they don't know right from wrong,
And why it doesn't bother them to
Kill strangers, classmates or even themselves.
------------------
Undoubtedly,
If we thought about it long and hard enough,
We could figure it out.
I'm sure it has a great deal to do with...
'WE REAP WHAT WE SOW,'

Pass it on
If you think it has merit! But if you discard this thought process,
Then don't sit back and complain about
what bad shape this country is in!

[Rick Thomson]

Sigh...you know guys, this is one of the places I come to hoping not to see politics raise it's ugly heads (spelling intentional).

[CJTK1701]

It wasn't meant to be political. It's more of an observation of trends over the history of the last 50 years. I really hate to say this, but no one is obligated to read this thread. I'm really sorry this has offended and more than a little surprised that it did.

"If we do not learn from our mistakes we are bound to repeat them."

[Mechanic]

Originally Posted by Rick Thomson

Sigh...you know guys, this is one of the places I come to hoping not to see politics raise it's ugly heads (spelling intentional).

This is somewhat what I was trying to say, but I can't keep my big mouth shut when I see stuff like this. I don't want see your political/religious views here anymore than you want to see mine.

CJTK: A big part of the problem, as I see it, is that you don't see why one would be offended by your original post, or "Dear God".

There is a subtle but significant difference between saying "I'm sorry you were offened by what I said", and saying "I'm sorry I said something that offended you". It's like saying I'm sorry you stepped into my knife, rather that apologizing for holding a knife where you could step into it.

One is an apology, the other is a non-apology.

And CJTK, I am retired Air Force, I'm proud of my service and my country. I think our country is in a lot better state than many would have you believe. But I also do see trends, that frankly, scare the crap out of me, and at the moment I am ashamed of our current government.

CJTK, Rick, and anyone else who may care, you don't know how much I AM biting my tongue on this thread because I KNOW most people DON'T care to see my thoughts on this and probably would be offended.

No, I don't have to read every post, and I don't. I do like to read amusing posts which is why I will often read "off topic" posts from the lounge.

Maybe the lounge needs to be subdivided into "serious" and "humorous", I don't know. But I'd be just fine if this thread was deleted and we got back to the paper.

[CJTK1701]

Dude! Lighten up! You have your opinion and I have mine. You're X-AF and I'm X-Navy. It's not a big deal. You hate this administration and I think it's one of the best since Ronald Reagan's. In my opinion George has done a great job, considering what was left to him and what happened. I don't believe everything he says and I don't agree with a lot, but in my opinion John Kerry would have sold us out to the French and Al Gore would have driven us into a socialist oblivion, but it's just an opinion. You have yours and I have mine, so what?

This thread was not about politics, it was an observation of trends and a look at history.

I'm sorry to say that you took things differently than I expected. I'm not going to appologize for the thread, because you got offended, that's on you.

If you're that offended, leave it alone. I'm not going to debate what's right and what's wrong and who's correct and who's off their bean. It's not the point of the thread.

I'm sorry this thread offended you, but I think you might be reading to much into it.

FYI, Like Dennis Miller, I used to be a Democrat and a Liberal, then I woke up. Sorry, but that's my feelings on the issue. That doesn't mean that if we were in the same pub, or on the same base, I would work side by sode with you, or even offer to buy you a drink, it just means that we disagree.

I've never been able to understand people that can't separate the person from the politics. I have a couple of good friends that are left wing compared to me, but we are still very good friends.

This thread is about trends and history, nothing else.

Don't sweat the small stuff, it's all small stuff. Keep on Trekkin!

[cgutzmer]

Thread closed - thats quite enough.
Chris