North American RR's coming back big time

[rhtastro]

RR's on the North American continent are booming these days. They are adding more track, locos and freight cars, cleaning out tunnels and getting ready for the increase in business that they have started to see. It's due to the high cost of diesel for trucks and the dearth of drivers. Coal hauling is still king but there's a huge increase in container traffic as well. In my area here in northern CA for UP it's mainly still lumber, which is down from last year, but truck trailers and containers have increased lately. Amtrak is also more popular due to high gas prices, 4 bucks a gallon out here. The future looks very bright for this industry and will eventually be all electric powered from nuclear power plants as is the case in Europe today. We're a little behind in that respect but we'll catch up when fuel prices rise further. Read the following piece for details. What's going on in your neighborhood. Bob
A Switch on the Tracks: Railroads Roar Ahead

[RobertInOntario]

This is interesting and I've noticed similar trends.

Yes, you're right re electrification. Most passenger trains in Britain are electric while freight still tends to be diesel.

I suspect that electrification hasn't happened in Canada (and in much of the US) due to our huge distances and climate. I'm not sure how our vast distances, and our many regions that face extreme cold and snow, would cope with electrification, but I'm interested in hearing more thoughts on this.

Rob

[Don7]

Originally Posted by RobertInOntario

This is interesting and I've noticed similar trends.

Yes, you're right re electrification. Most passenger trains in Britain are electric while freight still tends to be diesel.

I suspect that electrification hasn't happened in Canada (and in much of the US) due to our huge distances and climate. I'm not sure how our vast distances, and our many regions that face extreme cold and snow, would cope with electrification, but I'm interested in hearing more thoughts on this.

Rob

BC Rail had a major portion of the Tumbler Ridge coal line electrified. However, with the passing of BC Rail that is now gone.

Northern BC is certainly looking forward to the new container port in Prince Rupert. The Container port services the far East, containers are going straight from Prince Rupert to Chicago and what is most interesting is the increasing number of containers returning to Prince Rupert with goods from the US going to China.

Check out the main CN web page. One news release was about the 75 new diesel engines that were required mainly for the new Container Port and of cours the large amount of new container well cars.

[Triplex]

I suspect that electrification hasn't happened in Canada (and in much of the US) due to our huge distances and climate. I'm not sure how our vast distances, and our many regions that face extreme cold and snow, would cope with electrification, but I'm interested in hearing more thoughts on this.

It is technically feasible - there's a great deal of electrification in Russia.

Back in the 70s, there were many proposals for electrification. The best-known is probably the BN Powder River Basin plan. The Santa Fe is the only US road I know of to consider electrifying its entire transcontinental mainline. CP planned to electrify from Calgary to the west coast.

[ed acosta]

Don7, how is the container port being received by the people of Prince Rupert? Most of the citizens in our area in Delta and all the way up to Vancouver are very upset about the traffic that our DeltaPort expansion will bring to the area. I have to admit, I've looked into it and it seems that port expansion is ill-conceived due to all of the traffic that trucks already have trying to travel northeast through Vancouver. Besides, there is a fragile ecological area where migrating birds stop to feed that will be lost due to the port expansion. The feeling among most people is to ship and receive from Prince Rupert and avoid the Vancouver congestion. Premier Gordon Campbell begs to differ.

As much as I am ecology minded, I'll have to admit I enjoyed watching the long coal trains and container trains; first BC Rail and now CN.
-Ed

[mikebalcos]

This is interesting news indeed. I hope more Americans will opt for Amtrak. Passenger trains are a romantic idea for me. I could not imagine myself to model an American railroad without passenger service!

[CNJ999]

While it is perhaps not surprising that rail traffic has seen some significant increase of late, the American rail system has been so dramatically curtailed by progressive closure and abandonment over the past four decades that there is little left of its original infastructure. While yards in the large cities, or ports, may be well served, trackage to nearly all the individual industries formerly served by rail are long gone and the investment necessary to reinstate them would be enormously prohibitive today.

Remember also, that virtually all U.S. locomotives are run on diesel fuel, which at present is increasingly more expensive than gasoline, whereas it was once dramatically cheaper than gas. These highly significant factors (there are certainly others to be considered), seem to preclude any truly great boom in rail traffic resurgence in the near future, at least in my opinion.

CNJ999

[slekjr]

Remember also, that virtually all U.S. locomotives are run on diesel fuel, which at present is increasingly more expensive than gasoline, whereas it was once dramatically cheaper than gas. These highly significant factors (there are certainly others to be considered), seem to preclude any truly great boom in rail traffic resurgence in the near future, at least in my opinion.

CNJ999[/quote]

You have to keep in mind that the railroads do not pay road tax on their fuel and the large class 1s do buy at a slightly better price. There is a tax paid to help finance the FRA, but that has been dropping over the years and I believe it is down to 2 cents a gallon now.
We also move 3 times the freight with the same amount of fuel.

You are right that the railroads will not do a big recovery of local business, and the number 1 reason is that the class ones don't want the little guy unless it is inter-modal. They just don't have the equipment nor the manpower to do the job.

The equipment could be purchased, but getting good employees that are willing to give up all other aspects of their lives to work for a class 1 that can give them a call time of 1 1/2 hours is getting impossible. This ties up your entire life. they have to get their rest time, but as soon as it is over they are on the call board again.

IMHO it is the short call times that are the problem causing fatigued crews, and quite frankly if you aren't smart enough to be able to call a crew for a train and give the people at least 8 hours to get to work, management is not doing their job.

Charlie

[rhtastro]

Slekjr & CNJ999 could be right, since the infrastructure of many RR's in the US are in poor condition. However, as the Post article confirms, they are spending huge sums to renovate rails, tunnels, yards, etc. And also the fact is that rail traffic has increased substantially as of late. I have heard that the lines have ordered over a thousand new locos for delivery. They wouldn't be doing all that unless there was a need. These guys and their investors are not stupid and they know RR's are the future. I already see far fewer 18 wheelers on the I-5 freeway as compared to 2 years ago and longer and more frequent trains at the crossing up the street. It's real, alright.

By the way, I stop for trains, do you?

[slekjr]

rhtastro
Thank you for stopping for trains, I wish everyone would.
I know there are new locomotives ordered as well as a backlog on new freight cars, and lots of new construction. I also know for a fact the unit coal trains are sitting for days due to lack of crews.
Train crewmen make great wages, but with the working conditions enough good people can not be hired to run trains, and that is the number one problem to any expansion.
The railroads are in need of good family oriented men but many of these younger people see what is involved and just don't want any part of it.
It is one thing to work a job that is demanding, but be able to go home when you are done and know you don't have to go back to work until tomorrow morning, or go home Friday night and have a week end with your family. These guys can't plan anything in advance, and if they mark off too many times, that's the end for them.
That's the reason the older guys work the yard jobs. these are way more demanding physically, but they have set working hours.
I know of crews in trains today that between the conductor and the engineer there isn't 4 years experience.
Charlie

[rhtastro]

Charlie, thanks for an interesting critique on the labor situation with RR's. If we lazy Americans don't want to work on the roads, then let's bring in folks from Eastern Europe or Asia who want to work. That's what we did in the 19th century and it built the nation. Maybe it's time for that again. That's what we do in the electronics industry and other scientific fields here in CA. They make good wages and eventually good citizens. The local lazies can always work at Burger Queen or Pizza Babs. bob

[sgtcarl]

Ah, yes! The RR is making a comeback. I know that NS has invested tons of money, (over 1.2 Bilion dollars,) for upgrades of their infrastructures. They are widening their tunnels, and increasing the height of them, so that another track can be laid, and they can haul double decker modals through them. They also are planning on building an intermodal yard, either in Salem, or in the rural community of Elliston. The folks of Elliston say it will take away from their rural way of life. It will. But somethings have to be put somewhere. The yard would take over 2 million trucks off of I-81 which is one of the most dangerous Interstaes in the country. Also, a while back, NS hedged on their price for diesel fuel, and locked the price of it in for several years.
Carl

[slekjr]

Bob, you are missing my point. I never implied that Americans are lazy. My point is that management doesn't care about their employees enough to address the issue here.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that if a train leaves one terminal that it will need to be recrewed. If someone in management can't call a crew until that train is almost to the destination, then it is time to get someone that can.
When you subject people to a 90 minute call, that means that they can never be more than 90 minutes from work, which means cell phone or pager, have your grip packed, and don't plan on taking the wife or girl friend to dinner or a movie, and don't drink a beer because that puts you in violation of rule G if you are called.
Some of these crewmen are working 30 days in a row, 10 to 12 hours a day. Believe me, even if you are doing nothing but working the throttle and applying the air every now and again you can't do that and not burn out real quick. That is one reason we have some accidents that could be avoided.
When the new retirement rules took effect several years ago It was thought that a few guys that were 60 and had 30 years would leave.
Well instead of a few, most of them did, so now we don't have enough crews, and enough good people to train them well.
There are many good jobs out there and the railroad jobs are among them, all I am saying is treat your people well and they will give you all they have.

[tomustang]

Coal and Container cars have always been big around here, but for decades the boxcar has been obsolete and are just drug around as dead weight

The trucking industry is huge here and killed the boxcar long ago

[Harold Cole]

Charlie ,you hit the nail on the head.I've been with Amtrak for over 31 years,and your facts are right on target.For one the TRAINING is terrible and the new hires want exactly what you said,and that is a family life 8 hours a day and weekends off.The second problem is the new hires just can't get with the program or just don't care.The good workers that we get in only stay for a short time and get hired on other Railroads or Utility companys that are paying more.I run a crew in the E.T Substation Dept Out of Chester PA.,and most of the new hires seem to be rejects from other Companys or they have machanical DOWNS SYNDRONE.Whats up with the new generation¿