eBay Does It Again

[riverotter]

eBay announced on Wednesday 5/7/08 that they will no longer
allow feedback withdrawal.

Details and rationale are posted on eBay's announcements board:
May 2008

This is the latest of the many "bold changes" eBay has instituted
recently that, IMHO, have had an adverse effect on both the buying
and selling experience on eBay.

Here's the text of eBay's posting:

Hello everyone...as we announced back in January, we're making
some bold changes to how Feedback on eBay works. As we get
closer to our launch, I wanted to review the changes we've
discussed and provide some additional detail and updates.

As a recap, here's what we announced in January that is scheduled
to launch the week of May 19th in North America (which includes
eBay.com in the US, as well as eBay.ca and eBay.cafr in Canada):

> Sellers may only leave positive feedback for buyers

> We will remove negative and neutral Feedback if a member
becomes suspended

> Members can leave Feedback up to 60 days after a transaction
(down from 90)

> We will remove Feedback when a buyer fails to respond to the
unpaid item process.

> Members will receive credit for weekly repeat Feedback (going
back to 1996)

> We will base the Positive Feedback Percentage on the past 12
months of activity (and include neutral Feedback in the calculation)

> The PowerSeller Program will use the same calculation method
described above to determine eligibility for the PS Program for the
Positive Feedback percentage requirement of 98% positive.

In January we mentioned that we'd block buyers from leaving
negative or neutral Feedback for 3 days for sellers "with a track
record." Since January, we've made the decision to increase the
wait period to 7 days and define "track record" as active
PowerSellers who have been on eBay for at least 12 months.

We studied the factors that increased risk to buyers the most and
found there are three: a) a seller's Positive Feedback percentage
and DSRs, b) the volume of a seller's Feedback – both in total and
on an ongoing basis and c) length of time a seller has been on site.

We selected PowerSellers who have been on eBay at least 12
months in order to minimize risk to buyers, because:

a. PowerSellers have to meet quality thresholds for both
conventional Feedback and, starting in July, for Detailed Seller
Ratings

b. PowerSellers have to meet volume requirements – both in total
and on an ongoing basis

c. One year on-site proved to be an important predictor of lower
risk

All three factors prove important to predicting the risk to buyers –
removing any one of them would increase risk to a level we are not
currently comfortable with at this time.

We will watch all aspects of the new Feedback system very
carefully, studying how the marketplace responds and we will make
changes as we see appropriate.

We mentioned that we'd be aligning the Mutual Feedback
Withdrawal process with the new system. After much
consideration, we've made the decision to remove the Mutual
Feedback Withdrawal process. The reason is that – under the new
rules - it opens sellers up to extortion. As part of this decision,
Mutual Agreement from third-party Feedback mediation services,
such as SquareTrade, will also no longer be accepted.

Over the last several months, we've had many conversations with
our customers – both buyers and sellers – and we've had the
opportunity to consider ways we can address some of the top
concerns we've heard. Based on the input we've received from you,
I want to share some additional modifications we're making:

We are adding language in the leave Feedback flow for buyers who
are in a cross-border transaction that reminds them that
international transactions usually take longer to complete.

We've improved the interstitial page that all buyers see before
leaving negative or neutral Feedback; the updated page offers a
stronger message to buyers about the need to communicate with
the seller, to allow enough time for the transaction to complete,
and to keep Feedback factual.

And later this month...

In addition to expanding the 3-day block to 7 days, we are
introducing a new Buyer Requirement that will allow sellers to block
buyers who have been reported by other sellers for eBay buying
policy violations (such as Feedback abuse, or email threats).

We're expanding the scope of the existing Buyer Requirement for
unpaid items, so that it supports more comprehensive blocking of
buyers who have a history of non-payment.

We've improved the process that sellers use to report buyers for
policy violations.

Detailed Seller Ratings will be coming to Half in the next couple
months. Watch for more information on this via email and on the
Half discussion forum in the next couple of weeks.

These changes represent a huge investment in
transforming the way Feedback works, so that it better serves
today's marketplace. Ultimately, the goal is to restore trust and
transparency and improve the buying experience, while offering
needed checks and balances that ensure our sellers who provide
excellent service benefit.

[beamish]

Funny I never did see this message and I have been using ebay a lot in the last few days. I guess they forgot me.

Anyway.... there are some good things i see in that list and not too much that will effect the way i do things.

I am interested to see what some others view points are on this subject.

[iis612]

As a frequent seller on eBay, I am personally disgusted with some of the changes.
Buyers never really needed to be concerned about completing a transaction except for the negative feedback alerting other sellers. Now, and I am seeing this trend already, the number of non-paying bidders is going to swell. And why not, there is really nothing a seller can do about it anymore.
I say if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[CNWman]

Originally Posted by riverotter

> Sellers may only leave positive feedback for buyers

Soooooo... even if you try to leave a bad comment for a bad buyer, they still get positive reviews?

We will watch all aspects of the new Feedback system very
carefully, studying how the marketplace responds and we will make
changes as we see appropriate.

Riiiiiiiiiiight. Gee, why does the underlined not sound convincing?

We've improved the interstitial page that all buyers see before
leaving negative or neutral Feedback...

Excuse me? Where's positive feedback option?

[RonP]

Pfff you know what ? Sellers wait to see how a buyer decides his feedback is before doing theirs this is in no way fair as then the seller can harass or even hold the buyers rep in their hands.

You see too many sellers try to save money by putting the price on the buyer that is wrong. Life is a two way street and some of these greedy losers should get a bad rep for hidden costs.

Hidden Costs ? yeah money orders and shipping charges get expensive especially if the item was under $20.

Go ahead start a war about my words I am confident that the customers is and always will be right. Hence no negative feedback.

[RonP]

Originally Posted by beamish

Funny I never did see this message and I have been using ebay a lot in the last few days. I guess they forgot me.

Anyway.... there are some good things i see in that list and not too much that will effect the way i do things.

I am interested to see what some others view points are on this subject.

Like me you are a customer and I do not see anything wrong either.

[N Gauger]

Originally Posted by RonP

You see too many sellers try to save money by putting the price on the buyer that is wrong. Life is a two way street and some of these greedy losers should get a bad rep for hidden costs.

Hidden Costs ? yeah money orders and shipping charges get expensive especially if the item was under $20.

Go ahead start a war about my words I am confident that the customers is and always will be right. Hence no negative feedback.

I sell a lot of things in e-bay .. I always try to please my customers.. I also have the buyer pay shipping and a bit towards the e-bay and paypal charges..

If I didn't..... this is what it would look like (this is an ACTUAL auction I just sold last Saturday):

Buyer Pays shipping
Sold-----Inc. Ship-----e-bay fee---paypal---Profit
$6.99----$14.02-------$0.61-------$0.71----$5.67

Seller (me) pays shipping
Sold----Ship & Ins-----e-bay fee---paypal---Profit
$6.99-----$7.03--------$0.61------$0.71---- Minus $1.36 I actually Lose 1.36

E-bay charges for listing, for final value and their "sister" company Paypal charges for monies received....

So you see... without charging a fair shipping + hidden fee.. Note I said "Fair" fee... there is no possible way to make money unless you charge the buyer for shipping, Insurance, packaging, and those "Hidden fees"

[N Gauger]

Originally Posted by CNWman

Soooooo... even if you try to leave a bad comment for a bad buyer, they still get positive reviews?

When you leave feedback there are 3 "buttons" to choose from

Positive
NNeutral
Negative....

Once you choose them a text box appears, so you can leave actual comments...

From now on when a seller clicks on "Leave Feedback" there will only be 1 choice

Positive

... and the comment box..... You can still leave negative comments, but the "Feedback Score" will only reflect Positive comments..

BTW - this isn't quite fair, because those same buyers getting all this positive feedback will be sellers too - it makes them "potentially" look better as sellers because of their "Above normal" positive feedback...

That's not a good gauge of character anymore... unless you do a lot of research into how much they have bought vs sold. Just one more thing to worry about...

[RonP]

Mike I am sorry but I will not change my mind. The fact you do use paypal is a big plus in my books for you though. It is the guys that say no paypal i pay to much blah blah blah.

This subject blows a fuse for me. Nothing comes free and Ebay do deserve to make money too.

just take an ad out in the newspaper if you are worried about all this. No shipping and you actually exchange money by hand costs nothing in most cases.

I'd like to see what all you would say if we were talking about gas right now.

I am the customer, if i become the seller I will not forget that.

[riverotter]

This statement near the end was interesting to me: "Ultimately, the goal is to restore trust and transparency and improve the buying experience, while offering needed checks and balances that ensure our sellers who provide excellent service benefit."

Did I miss something? Was there a "crisis of trust" between eBay and its customers - buyers and/or sellers - that required action(s) to restore that trust?

[N Gauger]

Originally Posted by riverotter

This statement near the end was interesting to me: "Ultimately, the goal is to restore trust and transparency and improve the buying experience, while offering needed checks and balances that ensure our sellers who provide excellent service benefit."

Did I miss something? Was there a "crisis of trust" between eBay and its customers - buyers and/or sellers - that required action(s) to restore that trust?

Yes, basically greed reared it's ugly head.. or is that "Free Commerce and capitalism"????

There were buyers threatening to leave sellers negative feedback if they didn't get what they wanted... and some of the things they wanted was way above and beyond "fair trade"...

............Classic case of the few - ruining it for the many

Of course this went the other way too.. As Ron said - Sellers trying to get away with cheating some people.

I have been ripped off 3 times since '97 and i still keep going.. I have way more Good experiences than bad..

[Mountain Man]

In the military, this was known as CYA. In the civilian world, it's commonly known as "spin".

However, none of this is anything new. Try posting feedback to any major internet organization, including your ISP, and see what happens. Perhaps MSN is the most blatant in this matter; to "contact MSN", which is my ISP, I have to go through AOL, clearly a move designed to stop feedback altogether.

My philosophy has always been to vote with my wallet. The purchasing public controls immense power in this regard, although far too few use it; most continue to use a flawed service regardless.

If you really want e-Bay's attention, stop spending any money there. There are many other options for buyers and sellers of MRR products to get together and conduct business, and e-Bay will get the message very quickly.

[RonP]

Yeah I have no problem with sellers in general it is the few that find a way to email you and make weird and 10 paragraph statements expecting you to read the whole pile of crap sent.

Obviously it is a two way street to which I didn't immediatly recognize buyers getting crafty. But that is what the report abuse is for.

I think that E-bay may be better off doing the rock paper scissors thing where Ebay sends mail saying it is time for feedback not showing either the buyer or seller the feedback till they vote. If you don't take the opportunity to post feedback it is gone in 7 days after which feedback is stuck.

[Russ Bellinis]

I have never used ebay, this looks like not using ebay continues to be an excellent decision

[Paladin]

I have steadily decreased my use of eBay, both selling, and buying. In particular, the shipping cost are rediculous on some items. I mean, sending a large package, weighing about 5lbs across the country costs me less than $10.00, yet some sellers have shipping set at $20, $30, or even $40. If they are setting these "fees", why don't they say so. I have sold several things on eBay, and I never charge the buyer for shipping, becuase I can figure that cost myself, and try to set a starting price that will at least cover that. I have only lost money once from a sale, and it wasn't more than $10.
As far as their new policy, and talking with customers, and sellers, no one has ever asked my opinion on any thing there.
Oh well, I guess that is life, and ebay is just another multi-million dollar business